Sunday, May 3, 2009

Is Violence Ever OK?

My kids are 9 & 10. We regularly teach them not to hurt others. We try to teach fairness, openness, and tolerance. But there are times when those approaches break down.

I believe that there are times when violence is not only acceptable, but required, a view that seems extremely unpopular these days. But when might violence be required?
1) When you are afraid for your life.
2) When a bad person attempts to harm an innocent.
3) When the harming of a bad person will save innocents.

When bad people actually act on their threats it changes all of the rules. Talking is a great way to meet verbal threats, but once bad people move to action talking is no longer of much value. You see, I have been held at gun point. And during that very short and uncomfortable time, diplomacy was not an option.

I suspect that most of the liberal politicians that are so against torture (even though they were well aware of it's use ahead of time) would change their tune if their own family and friends were threatened. It seems that a very strong argument for softer tactics is the idea that the threat we face is not really that bad. In fact, the threat we face may be entirely imagined!

But 9/11 says otherwise. Iran says otherwise. North Korea says otherwise. The taliban say otherwise (I won't capitalize their name).

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe all Iran needs is to be convinced that it's policy of wiping Israel off of the face of the earth is too harsh. Maybe North Korea just wants to be included in global talks. Maybe the taliban, who believe women are second class citizens, just need to be heard.

Then again, maybe they just need to see that such evil will lead to the quick and painful death of their kind. Maybe shooting them is the best diplomacy there is.

3 comments:

  1. Haven't we been shooting "bad people," torturing "bad people," and done a fair amount of "harming innocents" in the last 8 years? If you think that we can kill our way out of the global mess that we are in, I believe you are sadly mistaken, my friend.

    Yeah, I get it. It feels righteous when we kill someone who is hurting someone else. It feels justified to do horrible things to someone we think has information that may help us stop an atrocious act of violence. But isn't it important to understand that just because something feels good doesn't necessarily make it right?

    It might have felt good to build an enormous stockpile of nuclear weapons in the 80s to combat the Soviet threat, but it wasn't until Reagan talked to Gorbachev that we made any actual progress in bilateral disarmament. It might have felt good for Congress to support a "strong military" (which apparently is a euphemism for huge, incredibly expensive, not-all-that practical weapons systems) until 19 guys armed with nothing more than box cutters and maybe a million bucks worth of training were able to cause more damage to our country than any other single military attack in our history.


    Maybe Dick Cheney is right. (After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day.) Maybe we got some small amount of actionable intelligence from the torture of detained terrorists. But as most veteran military interrogators will tell you, torture will almost always produce bad information. It might feel good, but it doesn't make it useful...or moral, or right.

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  2. Thank you for the great reply! You make a great agument. I guess I get lost in not understanding what the alternative is. Do we simply talk to terrorist and ask them for information after we capture them? Surely that is doomed to failure. So how do we get info from these freaks?

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  3. Hey Ben! Sorry that the last post named me as Annonymous. It's Patrick Williams. For some reason, the blog wouldn't let me identify myself when I posted before.

    Check out a great book, "How to Break a Terrorist: The U.S. Interrogators Who Used Brains, Not Brutality, to Take Down the Deadliest Man in Iraq" by Matthew Alexander (a psuedonym for a current U.S. Air Force interrogator). It shows how crucial information not only can be gained without torture, but that torture really gets us bad information. As much as I like "24" as escapist entertainment, it really is a silly fantasy of how the world works.

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